Curse

Lanier · Feb 02, 2010, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

Every dungeon has an accompanying quest which gives xp and gold already.

I was referring to end chest giving an additional like 5k rather than giving anything from an onyx gem to an emerald blade but i was being sarcastic as well. The point i was trying to make is that giving extra chest rewards is not a good idea.

Shriketalon · Feb 02, 2010, 09:36 PM // 21:36

I am personally amused that the idea to "revitalize guild wars" can basically be expressed by the following:

Nerf things. Add minipets.

doomfodder · Feb 03, 2010, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

People speedclear dungoeons, more and more Zkeys starts getting into the game, prices start to drop to for each key, Zkeys become 1k each, people complain about chest drops being crap.

Every dungeon has an accompanying quest which gives xp and gold already.

Zkeys will NEVER (REPEAT NEVER) be 1k again. Why would ANYONE sell Zkeys for 1k rather than just use it? The only time they approached that low value was before the Z title. Those days are LONG gone & won't EVER be back!

Nachtkult · Feb 03, 2010, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

tldr: nerf obby flesh

Great idea. The DoA is already a pain in the ass to do, kill it completly. Defy Pain isn't enough for tanking, a tactic sadly needed in every elite area.

The Drunkard · Feb 04, 2010, 11:08 PM // 23:08

And how exactly does this promote skillful teamplay and revitalize guild wars? All I see here is a request to nerf popular farms, add new skins, and add exclusive minis to dungeon chests, which won't get people to flock back to Guild Wars at all and it won't make people think anymore than "What new pvx farming build is there to use?"

Oh, and if you want to make yourself a little more credible, don't start sprouting bullshit about getting this done in one day, because I doubt any one is going to believe that after seeing how long anet takes to update its game.

Xsiriss · Feb 05, 2010, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Oh yeh jus to clarify,hell no to minis. They were a stupid thing to make 'rare' in the first place. They screw the economy up more than SF...

dr love · Feb 06, 2010, 07:46 PM // 19:46

from reading the replies, opinions are mixed about the ideas proposed. let me reply to some posts and reinforce some of my thoughts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

so powertrade until you can afford a mini you want. look for opportunities. i'm not playing from the very beginning, i don't farm 24/7 (don't like farming, i get bored after 5-6 runs), i don't waste 12 hours daily in kamadan, i don't do zaishen bounties. and somehow i was able to get an unded grawl and buy stuff for my consuming titles...

so you would promote powertrading to afford something you want? why can't i just play the game to get what i want? you may retort that you can, but then how long would it take you to accumulate enough ecto to buy an unded oni through gameplay? even speedclearing DoA over and over and over at 1 hr a run avg and 3 runs for an armbrace, you're looking at over 250 successful runs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

Ehm...
Bad idea to use those minis. Ruining the price of them as well is just a bad idea... I understand that making them common like that is just a bad idea.

is ghostly hero common? the drop rates can be fairly low, but high enough to promote play in that area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nachtkult

The DoA is already a pain in the ass to do, kill it completly.

you are correct. nerfing the super sweet tank builds will make DoA much more challenging causing few guilds to play in DoA if the rewards remain the same. as far as i know, anet is on track to do this sometime in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Oh yeh jus to clarify,hell no to minis. They were a stupid thing to make 'rare' in the first place. They screw the economy up more than SF...

the rare minis are in a market of their own. they keep increasing up and up because they are not obtainable in game except from trading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Oh, and if you want to make yourself a little more credible, don't start sprouting bullshit about getting this done in one day, because I doubt any one is going to believe that after seeing how long anet takes to update its game.

all it would take is change duration of SF to 0, change duration of OF to 0, change damage of the 2 maintainable smites to 0. Add 1 item to the drop tables of about 20 end chests. you and i could do it in 1 day, but you're right, that means about 1 year for anet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

more skills nerfed = less skills to use when playing

so nerfing SF means we will have even less build variety than we already do?!? well i better quit right now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

more skills nerfed = weaker monsters.

aatxes auto attack for 300+ dmg it doesn't matter what skills they have. and as far as i know, there's no monsters that maintain SF, OF or 600/smite your azz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

All I see here is a request to nerf popular farms...

I thought the nerfing had support of the majority of the community (especially on guru), and is already in the process of happening? its not my idea, its just inevitable.

let me reinforce some points:
1. those that won the past 2 art contests or the henchman contest made more ectos than most players did in a year of playing. great for them, but a slap in the face to any hardcore gamer.

2. powertrading is very profitable, but requires vast sums of money, time, patience, and potentially a lack of consideration towards others. most of the powertraders i know, don't actually play the game anymore because the rewards of sitting in kamadan are far more than playing the game.

3. botting is a major issue. someone i know has raked in 1000s of ectos worth of tonics through the snowball dominance bot alone. anet has a lot of easily farmable zones/quests and just can't keep up with banning bots anymore. how long did it take them to make one simple change to the HFFF quest to put an end to botting it? over a year.

3. now lets say i don't want to engage in either of those activities to earn my coin. i make more gold running players through dungeons or uw than i do actually forming an 8 man team for any sort of activity, DoA included. as i see it, this promotes a few people playing guild wars and the rest going afk.

4. during festivals, solo farming makes more money than any kind of cooperative pve playing.

are there only a few people that see something wrong with this?

The Drunkard · Feb 06, 2010, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

I thought the nerfing had support of the majority of the community (especially on guru), and is already in the process of happening? its not my idea, its just inevitable.

If you only read half of my quote, then you're at most going to only understand half of my thought. Nerfing popular team builds and adding a rare item at the end of the chest is not going to get people who have quit the game to come running back, it's only going to piss off the people who have been playing the game. If you want to "revitalize" the game Anet is going to have to do a few things.
1) Rework areas so that degenerate builds aren't needed yet make the area fun to play-this is not the same as making it easy
2) Add more content/story to the game (Another EoTN)
3) Listen to your pvp base instead of pulling skill ideas out of your ass
4) Make the game safe to play and eliminate the bots/hackers
I could add more, but I'm not in a thinking mood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

let me reinforce some points:
1. those that won the past 2 art contests or the henchman contest made more ectos than most players did in a year of playing. great for them, but a slap in the face to any hardcore gamer.

What was the slap in the face was Anet not creating anymore tournaments on a global scale.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

2. powertrading is very profitable, but requires vast sums of money, time, patience, and potentially a lack of consideration towards others. most of the powertraders i know, don't actually play the game anymore because the rewards of sitting in kamadan are far more than playing the game.

You can't kill powertrading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

3. botting is a major issue. someone i know has raked in 1000s of ectos worth of tonics through the snowball dominance bot alone. anet has a lot of easily farmable zones/quests and just can't keep up with banning bots anymore. how long did it take them to make one simple change to the HFFF quest to put an end to botting it? over a year.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

3. now lets say i don't want to engage in either of those activities to earn my coin. i make more gold running players through dungeons or uw than i do actually forming an 8 man team for any sort of activity, DoA included. as i see it, this promotes a few people playing guild wars and the rest going afk.

The game is old. People want the shinys from elite areas, but don't want to waste their time doing it after all the time they've invested in that area. They have money, and therefore will spend it that actually play, in hopes of gaining great profit.

Arduin · Feb 06, 2010, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

all it would take is change duration of SF to 0, change duration of OF to 0, change damage of the 2 maintainable smites to 0. Add 1 item to the drop tables of about 20 end chests. you and i could do it in 1 day, but you're right, that means about 1 year for anet.

You can't so this in an online game. Anet did it once with Smiter Boon and admitted they wanted it out of the game, but in fact it is saying they didn't know how to balance a skill properly anymore. If Anet would make the change you suggested, it would be a very, very sad move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

so you would promote powertrading to afford something you want? why can't i just play the game to get what i want? you may retort that you can, but then how long would it take you to accumulate enough ecto to buy an unded oni through gameplay? even speedclearing DoA over and over and over at 1 hr a run avg and 3 runs for an armbrace, you're looking at over 250 successful runs.

Accept the fact that you are not entitled to own everything in this game. This isn't Super Mario where every players should be able to get all 120 stars. This is a game shared with thousands of other people, each of them wanting to be unique. Be glad GW doesn't have a reward system like WoW, where only the person that gets to be the first that reaches character level 85 gets the 1 time only reward.

I'll have to side with The Drunkard here, the game is old. Nothing that Anet changes or will implement new will make people get back to the game, or let existing players enjoy the game more for an extended period. People have done everything over and over, and don't want to be bothered with bringing up new builds, they just want to get to their goal as fast as possible.

The only times when PvE was still exciting for me was when there still were unknown places left. But even when playing Nightfall I noticed it was basically more of the same. Guild Wars is in need of some major overhaul, and that's exactly what Anet is doing: designing a sequel and keeping the original playerbase busy with minor updates.

Lanier · Feb 06, 2010, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

You can't so this in an online game. Anet did it once with Smiter Boon and admitted they wanted it out of the game, but in fact it is saying they didn't know how to balance a skill properly anymore. If Anet would make the change you suggested, it would be a very, very sad move.

Anet knows how to balance skills properly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

Accept the fact that you are not entitled to own everything in this game. This isn't Super Mario where every players should be able to get all 120 stars. This is a game shared with thousands of other people, each of them wanting to be unique. Be glad GW doesn't have a reward system like WoW, where only the person that gets to be the first that reaches character level 85 gets the 1 time only reward.

I'll have to side with The Drunkard here, the game is old. Nothing that Anet changes or will implement new will make people get back to the game, or let existing players enjoy the game more for an extended period. People have done everything over and over, and don't want to be bothered with bringing up new builds, they just want to get to their goal as fast as possible.

The only times when PvE was still exciting for me was when there still were unknown places left. But even when playing Nightfall I noticed it was basically more of the same. Guild Wars is in need of some major overhaul, and that's exactly what Anet is doing: designing a sequel and keeping the original playerbase busy with minor updates.

I would have to disagree with you. While it is true that some people may just want to "get to their goal as fast as possible", there are also plenty of us that play the game for the fun of it. There are those of us who actually do enjoy PvE, and who do not merely rush through it in an effort to get our titles or money faster. Im not saying that I like the OP's ideas, nor am i saying that the game can be revitalized to its original content, but i am saying that you should not make broad generalizations about all of us PvEers.

Arduin · Feb 07, 2010, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

I would have to disagree with you. While it is true that some people may just want to "get to their goal as fast as possible", there are also plenty of us that play the game for the fun of it. There are those of us who actually do enjoy PvE, and who do not merely rush through it in an effort to get our titles or money faster. Im not saying that I like the OP's ideas, nor am i saying that the game can be revitalized to its original content, but i am saying that you should not make broad generalizations about all of us PvEers.

True. But the players who actually do enjoy PvE for the fun of it or want to take their time for it can still do so.

Dabineh Deathbringer · Feb 07, 2010, 12:13 AM // 00:13

The problem with this game is that people want to PvE alone. I remember when it was just Prophecies, and the last mission was fairly difficult without heros (and the henchmen were retarded back than with no hero flags). I spent about 30+ minutes finding the correct classes and decent enough players to finish the map. Let alone, most builds back than weren't great like today, and guild wiki had very few builds for just completing missions. You had to be creative to kill your doppleganger.

Now let's look at today's problems with the game.

1) Raptor farming. I just recently started this, barely have been doing it (I hardly play video games anymore), but yet I've gained easily 70+ rares and made hundreds and thousands of gold off of the wintersday items.

2) Heros over players. Honestly, no fix. Heros were a great update. You only get to use 3, and there's only 2-3 of the same class. What they should fix is having 4+ necros in the group. Once one player has Livia, another person shouldn't get to use "Shining Blade Necromancer", aka Livia number 2. So that way two people can't use 4+ necromancer heros. Also, players can almost have complete control over a hero (except Olias who is the definition of F***ing retarded). When a hero screws up, it's mainly the players fault. When another player screws up, it makes the "pro" players really frustrated. Players would rather have control over things besides their character than having a PuG screw things over.

3) SF needs a nerf? I'm surprised I haven't seen this yet. SHADOW FORM - Enchantment skill. Does what it does already. Disables all other enchantment skills for 20 skills. Doesn't fix much, but no more sliver armor.

4) 600 Smite should probably be nerfed. Makes CoF a joke.

5) I'm happy with better rewards at the end. But for us title farmers, I'd like something that does more with a title like reputation instead of simple money making drops.

In my opinion, I think they should stop trying to fix what they believe is broken in GW1 with GW1 updates. Just drag it to GW2. I'd be satisfied if there was no Triple Chop or Shadow Form or Mist Form or Searing Flames in GW2. I'm sure others wouldn't cry if they don't get SF in GW2, which is a new game.

Zahr Dalsk · Feb 07, 2010, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dabineh Deathbringer

The problem with this game is that people want to PvE alone.

This is not a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dabineh Deathbringer

Heros over players. Honestly, no fix.

Here's the fix. Humans must be able to do the following:

- Run the exact build I give them.
- Shut up and don't say anything, nor draw on the compass.
- Wait patiently whenever I feel like tabbing out of Guild Wars.
- Be ready instantly whenever I need a group.
- Follow all orders I give them.

If they can't do that, heroes are better and we'll all play H/H.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dabineh Deathbringer

4) 600 Smite should probably be nerfed. Makes CoF a joke.

600/smite also makes most vanquishing easier, and that's a good thing, because vanquishing is incredibly boring and time consuming - 600/smite makes it less so and is actually more fun to play than regular group play.

Axel Zinfandel · Feb 07, 2010, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Also, the problem with PvE is that Shiny stuff > useful stuff, and PvE = Single player with H/H, therefor obtaining shiny stuff = useless because no one is ever going to see it.

End · Feb 07, 2010, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

is ghostly hero common? the drop rates can be fairly low, but high enough to promote play in that area.

No...but is it as easy to acquire? only 1 team can win halls at a time whereas countless people can do a dungeon at once...And I am speaking more along the lines of say a mini mad kings guard which there is no method of acquiring in game... adding one of those would dramatically percentage-wise increase the number of them in game.

Arduin · Feb 07, 2010, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Also, the problem with PvE is that Shiny stuff > useful stuff, and PvE = Single player with H/H, therefor obtaining shiny stuff = useless because no one is ever going to see it.

Yet in a game where you can't be best armor- or weapon-wise because of skill>time, getting more rare shinies became a way to elevate yourself from the plebs.

Trinity Fire Angel · Feb 08, 2010, 05:52 PM // 17:52

as i have said in other threads, we need a nerf to PVE skills and make them more specific to the campaign they are from. Such as Ursan cannot be used in maps that are not Norn based. Allowing broken skills from other campaigns into places like Tyria just allows teams to destroy Prophecies.

All this speed clearing has ruined the game with the availability of consumeables, glyph of swiftness (the real two problems with game that allow SF to be perma).

Other skills like Cry of Pain, Dwaven stability, etc etc are a real problem as well. Things like MQSC so people can farm the hell out their luxon titles without ever having had to fight one single battle in AB or FA/JQ. Really sux. It kind of makes me feel cheated out of all the hours i spent just getting to r10 so far.

This game needs to reward skillful team play or skillful design of builds if you want to solo with heros and henchies. But all we get in UW or FoW is the same old builds.

Whoever said remove 600/smite because it makes CoF a joke.... really? 600/Smite has been around long before CoF. How about nerf CoF? Ever heard of Chilblains or Dying Nightmares? A few monster skill updates with rend perhaps?

MortenB · Feb 10, 2010, 12:48 PM // 12:48

How about upgrading some of the PvE skills to elite. That way you can't keep your 3 OP PvE skills on top of the real elite. PI, EVAS, EBSH are prime candidates.

Artisan Archer · Feb 10, 2010, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Just a one pve-skill limit is good.

Zahr Dalsk · Feb 10, 2010, 09:47 PM // 21:47

I kinda need those PvE skills for convenient H/H. Norn shouts and Pain Inverter are part of a build that lets me properly use Discord necros.

Without that I'm back to either smiting (shit) or heal/prot (shit with heroes), or 600/smite (crashing your precious balance even harder).